wombat1138: (Default)
[personal profile] wombat1138
Just splatting down some links from a rough Google search; no informational synthesis or conclusions, just brief notes.

Background: "money shots" toward the end of various Yamaguchirow K/K stories: just visual display, or practical explanation as contemporary contraception? Abortion/infanticide were allegedly common practices during the Edo period; were there commonly-known preventative measures as well? (Abortion was still the most popular method of birth control in Japan until fairly recently; the pill not legalized until the 1990s? main method available was condoms sold door-to-door among women, like the Avon Lady.)

Brief unref'd snippet: spotted and skimmed through book on current use of traditional medicine Japan, but didn't buy (title/author?); only specificish mention of such things was an acupressure/massage technique to induce abortion.

http://www.csu.edu.au/learning/eubios/EJ66/EJ66D.html: Meiji Restoration encouraged population growth and banned abortion and most forms of contraception; does this mean that such things had been previously available during the Shogunate, or was this just a campaign to keep them from being introduced from the West? The latter doesn't quite make sense considering the extensive Westernization campaigns to encourage everyone to eat meat, adopt Western clothes/hairstyles, etc., but hard to say. The exception for contraception was for "natural" methods, not further explained in this text-- rhythm method? coitus interruptus as originally speculated? (Sheesh, talk about Kenshin's inhuman self-control if he was doing this every time.)

http://www.dawncenter.or.jp/english/publication/edawn/9911/politics.html: abortion was relegalized in Japan in 1948-- not strictly relevant, but nice to know. Likewise, the Pill was approved for treating "menstrual disorders" om 1972, but not for purely contraceptive purposes until 1999.

http://www2.hawaii.edu/~amason/Research/Mason.APP.pdf describes the Meiji population-growth edict as "prohibit[ing] not just infanticide and abortion, but also the manufacture and distribution of contraceptive devices"-- so no condoms, but traditional methods still okay?

http://www.ac.wwu.edu/~patrick/geo324/Jolivet%20Chapter%205%20Notes.doc: MSWord summary of chapter 5 from a book identified only as "Jolivet"; cites most common methods of contraception as "physalis root or acupuncture needles"?

Jolivet seems to be this book. Amazon search on "physalis" within the text pulls up its use for abortion, not contraception; the root was used on a purely mechanical basis by insertion into the cervix at about the five-month stage. Other intracervical applications involved "needles from the wild mandarin tree, sharpened bramble twigs, Japanese coltsfoot, dwarf bamboo shoots, poisonous plants, ot burdock roots." Not clear whether the acupuncture needles were also used intracervically or actually down through the abdomen into the uterus (surely the latter would've risked peritonitis?). Drinking mercury (!!!!!) doesn't sound like a great choice either, "Convolvus seeds mixed with water" also mentioned as used by women in Edo (for abort. or contr.?); the only reliable form of contraception might've been prolonged nursing of the previous child?

Convolvus = bindweed/morning-glory; iirc the Japanese name for the morning-glory flower, asagao, was also used to describe the similarly-shaped freestanding urinals/latrines that were sometimes placed just outside the main... outhouse. (Awkward turn of phrase, but in the strict sense of "bathroom" -> place for taking baths and "lavatory" -> place to wash more quickly, neither of those is accurate in this context.)

Physalis family includes various ground-cherries, tomatillo, Chinese lantern, houzuki-- subliminal symbolism in Kiyosato's promise to give one of these plants to Tomoe? Not necessarily; there's a traditional houzuki market/festival in Tokyo that dates back to the Edo period, but on the other hand, this blog mentions a dual Asagao *and* Houzuki Festival... hmmmm. Really need to draw up a Cliffnotes-type supplement to the OVA, one of these days, starting with ADV's insane decision to change "Kyoto" to "Edo" in the dub and their idiotic "background notes" about Saitou and Okita.

(Later addendum: this page says of one Physalis species, "Some caution is recommended since an overdose of the plant is said to easily precipitate an abortion[218]"; footnote is for "[218] Medicinal Plants of China by Duke. J. A. and Ayensu. E. S. (Reference Publications, Inc. 1985 ISBN#0-917256-20-4)"-- if known for this use in China, similar application in Japan seems possible though not certain.)

http://haojing.hp.infoseek.co.jp/calen2001jul.htm (from July 2001) lists the Tokyo Asagao Festival as running for three days, immediately followed by the Houzuki Festival but not combined with it.

Now my brain cell is full. I will have to lie down so some of it can empty back out. @_@x

['Nother addendum: http://wom-jp.org/e/JWOMEN/repro.html sez that even in 2000, withdrawal was the second most popular form of contraception at around one-quarter of respondents, though possibly in conjunction with other methods (though it would seem redundant to pair that with condoms, which were the top choice at about three-quarters of respondents); the Pill still hadn't caught on very much, surprisingly.]

on 2006-07-30 06:44 pm (UTC)
branchandroot: oak against sky (Default)
Posted by [personal profile] branchandroot
Happy links. *makes notes*

My own recent research on Sengoku and the transition to Edo suggests that there was a population boom previous to or during Edo. I think the way that probably works out is that, without the wars drawing down the population, a stable level of reproduction resulted in a whole lot more people running around. Just about every source that deals with government and/or law notes that the Edo government was constantly attempting to control this huge population and not really doing all that well, despite the massive and largely successful social re-engineering that Hideoshi pushed through. So I suspect that whatever methods of contraception/abortion were available would have been either accepted or outright encouraged.

Meiji, though, was the beginning of nationalism and expansionism running hand in hand. It makes a lot of sense that the PTB would want to pump up the population again.

on 2006-07-31 01:46 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Quick citelet-- Tokugawa Japan, eds. Chie Nakane and Shinzaburou Ouishi, transl. ed. Conrad Totman, University of Tokyo Press, p 37: "The population at the end of the seventeenth century was approximately thirty million, and it remained stable until the early years of the nineteenth century"-- so yeah, sounds like a boom during the early/pre-Edo era. IIRC some of the early precursors to the Greater Asian-Pacific Co-Prosperity Sphere were the absorption of the formerly kinda-independent regions of Ryuukyuu (Okinawa and other southern islands) and Ezo (now Hokkaido)-- dunno how many settlers were required vs. cannon-fodder, but I suppose it doesn't make much difference in the long run.

on 2006-07-30 07:35 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] qadgop.livejournal.com
Not a topic I know anything about, really, but I gather condoms made of some substance or other (Fish?!) go back at least as far as ancient Egypt. Of course, I haven't seen the "money shots" in question.

on 2006-07-31 01:57 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Eh, you've seen one money shot, you've seen them all.

IIRC, the ancient Egyptians had a rather stunning variety of contraceptive methods, incl. a pessary whose components included hippopotamus dung (the acidity may've had spermicidal effects, but, um, ew).

Hah-- more linkage (http://www.alanmacfarlane.com/savage/FERTILIT.PDF), comparing population-control methods in eighteenth-century? Japan with contemporary England; for Japan, questionable mention of oiled-silk cervical caps, *very* ineffective-sounding version of the rhythm method, but no definite documentation for coitus interruptus.

OTOH, possible Western influence on the specific character of Himura Kenshin as portrayed in manga/tv-anime/OVAs; probable call for completely different post on that subject.

on 2006-07-31 02:43 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] qadgop.livejournal.com
Eh, you've seen one money shot, you've seen them all.

Just like real life? (Ow...) (Also: Hey, you're the doujinshi fan. Do non-porn doujinshi exist?)

OTOH, possible Western influence on the specific character of Himura Kenshin as portrayed in manga/tv-anime/OVAs; probable call for completely different post on that subject.

Maybe; I am blanking on the connection. I take it he's still never been revealed to be hermaphroditic, as I was certain the (relatively few) episodes I've seen implied?

on 2006-07-31 05:46 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Yeah, there are plenty of non-porn doujinshi. Doujinshi really are the manga equivalent of fanfic, so all of the same general categories are represented: crossovers, parodies, dramas, tragedies, soap operas, etc. etc.; however, since almost all of them originate in Japan and are written in Japanese, porn is the easiest type to figure out what's going on without understanding the dialogue.

Forgot to add in the other discussion thread-- wrt the licensed English-language versions in the US, the tv series and the manga are called "Rurouni Kenshin" but the OVAs and movie are called "Samurai X". Both OVAs were made after the tv series had ended; the first one is based on an extended flashback that occurs in the manga after the story arcs equivalent to the first two tv seasons, while the second one's story has almost no basis in the manga or anime.

The first OVA was originally released in four half-hour episodes, of which the first two were bundled in the US as "Samurai X: Trust" and the second two were "Samurai X: Betrayal". There's also a "director's cut" version that smoothly spliced all four episodes together and chopped off the top and bottom into pseudo-widescreen dimensions for the sake of theatrical release. The movie is called something like "Samurai X: The Motion Picture". Similar to the first OVA, the second OVA was made as two episodes, bundled together in their original forms as "Samurai X: Reflections" and spliced together into a "Reflections" director's cut.

on 2006-07-31 06:16 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] qadgop.livejournal.com
Hmm. Out of curiosity, is there an easily-accessible source of non-porn doujinshi? (Everything I've looked up has turned out to be yaoi.)

Thanks for the titles.

on 2006-08-01 12:42 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
There are some scans here (http://www.romantation.com/Doujinshi.php); I know that the "Violently Happy" series is non-smut, but haven't checked the others for content.

on 2006-08-01 01:18 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] qadgop.livejournal.com
Thanks. Hmmm, can't seem to open it. Maybe later, then.

Feeling less oogy this week? We're about to go high-90s again tomorrow.

on 2006-08-02 02:52 am (UTC)
Posted by (Anonymous)
There is another Yamaguchirow doujinshi "Sorewa, itsuko, kitto..." (which I have seen translated as "Surely, someday...") that is non-smut; otherwise, there always seem to be a few clean ones available on eBay.

on 2006-08-05 03:29 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Ah yes, I'd forgotten about that one; it's the only non-hentai one on the usual checklist (http://doujinshi.kuroi-hoshi.org/rkyg.html) since all of VH is shunted off to a different page.

My doujinshi preferences are still mostly for Yamaguchirow smut, though-- the general trend in their plots is mainly consenting adults rather than, say, schoolgirl gang-rape (as in the only non-Yamaguchi IY doujin I have, and many of the non-Yamaguchi RKs).

on 2006-08-02 04:14 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Oh-- the aforesaid connection would be that even if those contraceptive practices weren't typical for Japan in that era, Kenshin theoretically might've still known about and practiced them because of some sort of Western influence in his background, such as whatever motivated him to construct crosses for people's graves. However, that sort of handwaving within the narrative frame is pretty speculative, esp. if there's no clear sign of character intention for the money-shots to be contraceptive in nature, rather than just the aesthetic decision of the doujinka.

Semi-similarly, there are no naked crotch shots of him in either the manga or the anime. With doujinshi, anything goes, so there may well be some which portray him as a dickgirl in excruciating anatomical detail. Well, more likely the anatomical detail would be somewhat obscured with black boxes or strategic blurs.

(I have yet to figure out what the specific censorship taboos are; I'm not really sure they're consistent across the genre. The specific point of intromittive contact usually gets blurred/boxed out, as does the fount of ejaculation; pre-ejaculatory ooze seems to be okay, but with the example that comes to mind, there was an (imho) oddly-placed blur along the bottom of the glans, I suppose to censor the rolled-back foreskin. Or at least I assume Kenshin has one; while circumcision wasn't traditional, the custom was to keep the foreskin rolled back, decreasing its visual obviousness-- which would be decreased even further during erection, or so I gather from online sources (never having seen an actual foreskin in the flesh). Also, there's that pesky question of whether he did have some sort of Christian influence in his childhood; I have no idea whether the Japanese crypto-Christians practiced circumcision, though it would've been a dangerous giveaway during most of the Shogunate, when converts were executed as a matter of policy.)

on 2006-08-02 11:20 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] qadgop.livejournal.com
Up until now, I've always had the impression that manga always substitutes "white space" for anything particularly hard or transgressive, but you seem to have pretty conclusively seen otherwise.

on 2006-07-31 01:48 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] sangotaijiya.livejournal.com
No abortion or birth control, eh? Why does that seem so familiar. *glares at george dubya bush and the moral majority*

Well, I'm certain there were no end of herbal remedies that women knew about. No matter what government tries to force people to breed, it's still ultimately the individual's choice.

on 2006-07-31 05:59 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Well, at least the Meiji regulations weren't based on religion, at least as far as I know. Even in modern Japan, there are Buddhist temples devoted to the tiny ghosts of abortions and miscarriages (mizuko or mizugo, depending on the transliteration-- the same category also used to include infant deaths, intentional or otherwise), and there seems to be some debate about whether these temples benefit from deliberately preying on women's consciences, but the general approach seems to be more along the lines of "I'm sorry you couldn't stay with us; here's a gift for what would've been your birthday, and we hope you're happy wherever you are now" instead of "Ack I'm a DAMNED SLUT who is going to HELL."

However, though I don't have exact refs on hand, I think that local law-enforcement officials would sweep through each village/neighborhood every few months, check with each family to find out if anyone was pregnant and how far along they might be, and then follow up in the next visit to make sure the baby had actually been born at the expected time and was still alive, or otherwise require documentation to explain how/why a natural miscarriage or infant death had happened. If the story didn't add up, there were fines or criminal penalties or something.

(Man, I am so not awake this morning. Sznnnxnnzz.)

on 2006-08-03 03:58 am (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] swlover.livejournal.com
Thanks for the links. They were very educational. :) Every time I "research" subjects like this (or read other people's research and supplied links) I'm so very glad that I'm a product of the late 20th century rather than the mid-19th. However, I did find the different govermental views on contraceptives between the Edo period and Meiji period to be quite interesting. I wonder if the population's views followed the government's views. Hmmm...

I suppose the obvious difference in cultural and social norms between just two distinct centuries is one reason I get so irritated with time-travel fics that cover a time gap of more than 100 years. Actually a gap of 50 years is sometimes irritating - cultural change can occur very quickly with the correct motivation.

I know if I was sent back to 1868, I would go stark, raving mad. I'm just too comfortable with the "freedoms" and conveniences of this time period. In other words, I love the character of Himura Kenshin and the cultural backdrop of his story, but I wouldn't want to live with him. I'd probably wander all over Tokyo asking where a "hot spot" was so I could access the Internet. Forget that. I'd wander all over Tokyo trying to find some electricity and a washing machine (and plumbing for the washing machine and detergent and...). :P

on 2006-08-13 01:20 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] kumagoro-usagi.livejournal.com
So there where no form of contraception for Japanese women during the Edo period? Wow.

on 2006-08-13 02:23 pm (UTC)
Posted by [identity profile] wombat1138.livejournal.com
Well, there wasn't nec'ly reliable/widespread contraception for Western women either during that time, although John M. Riddle's done some research on the subject (I've got two of his books, but haven't read them recently). It mostly seems to've been a matter of herbal folklore, so paradoxically, rural women might've been better off in that regard than urban women-- iirc he mentions a custom still practised in parts of the Appalachians of collecting wild carrot seeds (Queen Anne's Lace) and swallowing a spoonful with water either before or after intercourse, with at least some sort of effectiveness evaluated on the anecdotal level.

There was also various "patent medicines" in the US in the mid-19th and early-20th centuries-- legislated away by the Pure Food and Drug Act, though that's been weakened enough by now that maybe they're back on the market-- which were vaguely promoted as remedies for "women's troubles" such as "menstrual irregularity". The reasoning at the time was that they were useless witches' brews whose only active ingredients were alcohol, but Riddle researched the herbal extracts involved, and the alcohol was useful for keeping nonpolar components in solution-- components which could, as they say, bring on a stopped period.

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