various Japanese apologies

[wombat1138]

All righty then. The apologies most people know about are "gomen (nasai)" and "sumimasen"; as it turns out, there are significant implications to the presence or absence of "nasai" in the former, as well as numerous other forms of apology.

The least formal apology is simply "gomen", which should really be considered as "go-men": honorific+noun, where "men" means something like pardon, amnesty, permission, or forgiveness, so literally "a gracious pardon" or suchlike.

The next one up is the informal analogue of "sumimasen": "sumanai". Both of these are negative forms of the verb "sumasu", repay/relieve, whose root kanji is built from elements which seem to represent water and uniformity (the latter may be further compounded from something to do with writing or the arts, or that may just be a visual coincidence). Ignoring the parenthetical bit, perhaps the original meaning referred to refilling a container of liquid to its original level after some of it was poured out. So the negative forms would mean something like "I can't repay my debt to you", which is probably why they can also be used in some contexts as an expression of thanks. (No idea about the etymology of "arigatou" at the moment. That'll have to be another sidetrack.)

Next, there's "gomen nasai". Paradoxically enough, the second half is the plain imperative of an honorific verb, "nasaru"; since its ordinary analogue "suru" (do), its English equivalent might be something like perform/accomplish--> "Kindly accomplish a gracious pardon (for me)"? The phrasing is awkward, but that's because of the next version.

"Gomen kudasai" is slightly more formal than "gomen nasai"; "kudasaru" is another honorific verb, this time one of the umpteen different verbs in the give/receive cluster. "Bestow" is probably a good rendering, producing the slightly more natural English sentence "Bestow a gracious pardon (upon my unworthy self)".

Neither of the first two forms seems to be acceptable for apologizing a social superior; the third one may be okay, but seems relatively rare. Despite the honorific verbs, there may be some people you can't address with the imperative, no matter what. (It's kind of like the moment I realized why Latin prayers always use the hortatory subjunctive instead of the imperative-- it's not "Lord, bless us RIGHT NOW, DAMMIT" but rather "Lord, if it seems like a good idea to you, we would really appreciate it if you could bless us sometime....") The formal "sumimasen" (see"sumanai", above) is a safe choice after you've spilled coffee on your boss, though.

And then there are two ultra-formal/grovelling versions I'm not aware of having encountered in actual use, both of them based on "moushiwake"+[formal copula]. The first part further bifurcates into a derivative of the verb "mousu", a self-abasing analogue of "iu" (speak), and the noun "yaku" (translation). The "iu"-based analogue "iiwake" already has the meaning of a spoken explanation/apology, so "moushiwake" just ratchets things up even more to something like "my unworthy/inadequate explanation".

(Other compounds of the same "mousu" are used to refer to college/job applications and marriage/grant proposals, but I don't think there's any relation to the telephone greeting "moushi moushi", which originated as a shibboleth against kitsune in human disguise-- evidently if you're a fox-thpiwit, you have a lithp?[1])

So there's the version with the polite negative of the already rather polite copula "arimasu" (from "aru", as opposed to the colloquially conversational "da/desu"), "moushiwake arimasen", and then there's the version with the polite negative of the practically archaically polite copula ("gozaru", familiar to RK fans), "moushiwake gozaimasen". (Now that I think about it, iirc "gozaru" might've evolved from an earlier form that appended the honorific prefix "go-" with "aru", but I'm not sure which one of my books that was in. Or I might just be imagining it.) Both of them might literally translate to something like "(My actions were so heinous that even the most necessarily) inadequate explanation (which I might offer) does not exist" (or "...can possibly suffice").

I was hoping to round all of these up with a simple chart of English equivalents, perhaps ranging from "Sorry, my bad" to "I abase myself in hope of the gracious forgiveness you might offer me, although I do not truly deserve it", but now my brain has melted for the day :b

Later notes:

"Gomen" would presumably equate to the most common rushed/clipped apologies such as "excuse me" and "(I'm) sorry", as well as even more informal phrases such as the aforementioned "my bad".

At least in American English, "pardon me" sounds slightly more formal, and thus appropriate for "sumanai"; another possibility might be "my apologies".

"Gomen nasai/kudasai" would expand on the first set of phrases: "Please excuse me", "I'm so sorry", and so on. ("My mistake"?)

Similarly, "sumimasen" would be something like "I beg your pardon" or "please accept my apologies".

I'm still not sure what to do with "moushiwake arimasen/gozaimasen", but something like "I beg your forgiveness" or "please forgive me" seems promising, since at least in my limited social sphere, I seldom hear forgiveness invoked in a secular/casual context.

Not that I'm actually likely to stick to this chart of equivalents, but it's fun to play with....

[1]: much later correction; evidently I was wrong on both counts. It *is* the same verb, which disguised kitsune can pronounce correctly after all, at least for a single-barrelled round. I don't know what happens when they attempt to say "moushi" the second time, though.

Comments

[qadgop.livejournal.com]

Huh: so in Japanese, one answers the phone by saying "Bless you!"

[wombat1138.livejournal.com]

Blinka?

[qadgop.livejournal.com]

Doesn't "Bless you!" have the same origin? As a preventative measure to keep the Devil (or whatever) from entering a person when s/he sneezes? I'm sure I remember learning that somewhere.

[wombat1138.livejournal.com]

Y'know, I have no idea 8|

I think I've been assuming that it's based on the idea that the breath in your lungs is equivalent to the soul, as promulgated by everyone from the ancient Greeks to Joss Whedon (cf. Angel's inability to perform CPR at the end of Buffy's first season), so therefore when someone sneezes, it's good practice to urge that soul to stay put in case of impending zombiehood?

(Metaphysical flatulence humor: there's an exorcism ritual whose range includes ancient Greece, some of the Celtic tribes, and even modern Japan. It involves getting rid of ghosts by spitting dried beans at them. Why? IIRC, Pythagoras prohibited his followers from eating beans because doing so was tantamount to eating one's ancestors. The logic seems to be that if compressible anatomical airspace is equivalent to the soul and beans cause flatulence, then therefore, the consumption of beans induces the supernatural possession of your intestines because beans have amazing soul-holding capacity. But all those extra souls had to come from somewhere, right? So that must mean that beans can just VACUUM UP DISEMBODIED SPIRITS.)

There's a very bad joke somewhere in that material about succubi and succotash, but I can't put my brain cell on it. Too melty. Ow.

Oh, but back to the "moushi moushi" thing-- no, it's not to keep yourself from becoming spiritually possessed by a kitsune; it's what you try to get someone else to say if you suspect they might be a shapechanged kitsune, because if they are, they won't be able to say it right. I'm not really sure why it turned into a phone greeting, though, esp. if you can't see the person on the other side anyway.

(I have no idea whether foxes *can* manage the right pronunciation if they're *not* in human shape. Evidently they always mess up somehow, though; my dad once told me a Chinese fairy tale about how bound feet had originated when a fox-spirit turned herself in into a babelicious woman who became the Emperor's favorite concubine, but even in human shape, she still walked on itty-bitty fox feet which the other concubines ended up trying to emulate by artificial means.)

[qadgop.livejournal.com]

I think I've been assuming that it's based on the idea that the breath in your lungs is equivalent to the soul, as promulgated by everyone from the ancient Greeks to Joss Whedon (cf. Angel's inability to perform CPR at the end of Buffy's first season)[...]

Uh--first-season Angel had a soul. I thought it was just that he doesn't breathe. (As Angry Darla would later put, "I! Don't! Breathe!" *pant* *pant*)

So that must mean that beans can just VACUUM UP DISEMBODIED SPIRITS.

Oh, the gaming possibilities... (which are breathtaking, ba dump bump)

I have no idea whether foxes *can* manage the right pronunciation if they're *not* in human shape.

I would think not, what with the snout. Cool story, though. But why would a concubine custom spread to the general populace?

[wombat1138.livejournal.com]

Uh--first-season Angel had a soul. I thought it was just that he doesn't breathe.

Doh-- I forgot about his soulfulness at that point. He did say "I have no breath" (which would be extra-useful if the garlic taboo weren't in effect), but there's probably all kinds of handwaving about that. After all, clearly he can mechanically puff air in and out of his lungs, or he wouldn't be able to speak; it's just that he doesn't metabolize oxygen to enrich his exhalations with carbon dioxide, which is what triggers the breathing reflex. The real biological paradox of Whedon's vampires is probably their circulatory systems-- I think it's stated that their hearts don't beat? But in that case, when vamps themselves are cut, should they really bleed? Without positive pressure flowing through the system, you'd think they'd be more like a damp sponge, without active leakage. And especially, how the heck do Angel and Spike get erections?

But why would a concubine custom spread to the general populace?

Downward promulgation of beauty standards? If all of the imperial concubines are fighting to get into the smallest shoes, doting peasant parents might try to minimize the size of their daughters' feet in hopes that someday, their little girls (but not their feet) might grow up to gain the favor of the Emperor, or at least the Emperor's talent scouts?

But then, one might reason along the same lines that considering Cindy Crawford's babeness with a single obvious mole on her face, then a woman with *three* moles on her face ought to be *three times* as babelicious. Some arbitrary standards of beauty are even more arbitrary than others....

[qadgop.livejournal.com]

After all, clearly he can mechanically puff air in and out of his lungs, or he wouldn't be able to speak;

One might simply argue that, as with all things vampirical, It Is Teh Magic. But that's been undercut in places--most jarringly for me, when a tranquilizer affected Angel on an early episode of Angel (complete with heartbeat sound effect, oddly enough).

The real biological paradox of Whedon's vampires is probably their circulatory systems-- I think it's stated that their hearts don't beat?

We've seen it directly. On the first (?) episode with Gwen the Electric Thief, one of her zaps restarts his heart (presumably for the first time since he was vamped, the Angel-becomes-human episode notwithstanding). We see it: a dark, shrivelled-up little thing that suddenly blooms into life and start beating (instead of, say, falling apart from age and stress). I was pretty annoyed when this wasn't followed up: we never saw it stop beating, so did Angel have a heartbeat from then on? Never addressed.

But in that case, when vamps themselves are cut, should they really bleed?

No. In fact, they should move pretty jerkily, with difficulty, shouldn't they? With their bodies in a state of rigor mortis, yet moving anyway. (Holy crap: That'd explain Chinese hopping vampires!) But they don't, because It Is Teh Magic.

Without positive pressure flowing through the system, you'd think they'd be more like a damp sponge, without active leakage.

With the blood all long-congealed, cold pudding--if not simply gone to dust lying in their own shrivelled vestigial blood vessels.

And especially, how the heck do Angel and Spike get erections?

Since all of the above apparently isn't true and they do, somehow, have liquid blood running around in there, I suppose they have enough control of it to direct it to this or that body part. Because It Is Teh Magic.

[wombat1138.livejournal.com]

T3H MaJiK PwNz L33TN3SS!!!!1!0N3!!!

[qadgop.livejournal.com]

"The magic pawns leetness on 3?" Dunno, I never watched 3.